Questioner:

Āisha reported that the Messenger of Allāh ﷺ said, ‘Souls are like conscripting soldiers. Those whom they recognise, they get along with, and those whom they don’t recognize, they will not get along with.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes. All praise is due to Allāh ﷻ. May the peace and salutations of Allāh be upon the Messenger of Allāh ﷺ, upon his family and companions. ‘Those whom they recognise, they get along with.’ meaning – if the souls recognise they are in agreement in [certain] factors, faith and inclinations, then these – by the permission of Allāh, will agree. However, if they disagree in these matters, then what is apparent is that they will most likely not agree. This is what is apparent from this narration.

Questioner:

Yes O’ Shaykh.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes.

Questioner:

The second narration; al-‘Awzā’ī [may Allāh have mercy upon him] said, as it is in the book ‘al-Ibānah’ by ibn al-Battah; ‘Whoever hides his innovations from us, [will not be able to] hide him companions from us.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

This is clear. ‘Whoever hides his innovations from us, [will not be able to] hide him companions from us.’ Meaning – if he hides his innovations, then his companion – the people whom he befriends and is inclined to, will make clear for by them that he is an innovator. That is, if he befriends and inclines towards innovators, then from this, it will be clear that he is an innovator.

Questioner:

A question O’ Shaykh. Is it understood from this narration, that if the condition and madḥab [methodology] of an individual is not known, yet his sittings and mingling are with the people of desires and innovation, then he is regarded as an innovator and allied to them?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes, this is so. They [the Salaf] said, ‘His entering, companions and acquaints of the people clarifies [his methodology]. Meaning – his entering, if he entered upon a people from the people of innovation, then it is known that he is an innovator. When the Ahlul-Hadith would hear of the coming of an individual whom they did not know of his sound creed or methodology, or if he want an innovator. So one of scholars in their time would say ‘Look at who he enters upon, frequents and befriends..’ or along these lines. So it becomes known thereafter that he entered upon the innovators and befriended them.

Questioner:

The third narration. When Sufyan ath-Thawrī entered al-Basrah, he looked at the affair of ar-Rabī ibn Subayh and his status with the people. He asked about his methodology and they said his methodology was none but the Sunnah. So he asked, who does he accompany? They said, the people of Qadr. So he said, he is a Qadri. He said, as long as his companions are the people of Qadr, he is a Qadarī.

Is it understood from this narration that if an individual outwardly manifests the Sunnah, and calls to the ascription to it, but his sittings are with the people of innovation and desire, then certainly he is aligned to them due to his sittings with them?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes, Yes.

Questioner:

The fourth narration, Muḥammad ibn ʿUbayd al-Ghalābī said, ‘The people of desires hide everything except their companions and friends.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes. This [his companions] clarifies his [methodology], meaning this [methodology] becomes apparent by way of them.

Questioner:

The Esteemed Imām, Abū Abdullah Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal said, ‘If a man greets an innovator, then he loves him.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

‘If a man greets an innovator, then he loves him.’ – certainly to Allah we belong and to Him we shall return. Allah (Alone) is sufficient for us, and he is the best disposer of affairs (for us). This is clear.

Questioner:

Shaykh, is this unconditionally?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

By Allah, the statements of the Salaf placed in their [rightful] places. However the people of this era have become lenient.

Questioner:

Yes O’ Shaykh.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes.

Questioner:

Ibn Mas’ūd said, ‘Certainly a man walks and befriends those whom he loves and are like him.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Maa shaa Allah! May Allah be glorified – meaning, their statements will be in agreement. ‘Certainly a man walks and befriends those whom he loves and are like him.’ Those who are not like him, then no doubt there will occur between them some differences and friction which will cause their to friendship discontinue in the end.

Questioner;

Yes O’ Shaykh. Imām ibn Baṭṭah al-Ukbari said after mentioning the narration of the Prophet ﷺ,

‘Whichever one of you hears of the arrival of the Dajjal should go distant himself from him as possible. Certainly a man will come to him whilst considering himself a believer, and he will continue doing so until he follows him due to the doubts he see.’

He said, this is the statement of the Messenger of Allah and he is the Trustworthy and Upright. So I swear by Allah ﷻ and [again] I swear by Allah O’ Muslims, let not the good thought you have of yourselves and the knowledge of the correct methodology you possess, carry him to risk his religion by sitting with the people of desires. So he says, ‘I will enter upon him and debate with him, or I will make him leave his manhaj’ for certainly this fitnah is greater than the Dajjal. Their speech sticks stronger than scabies, and it burns their hearts greater than flames. And I have seen a group of people who used to curse and revile the People of Desires. Then they went and sat with them in order to contest with them and refute them. Then the cheerful, open attitude, the hidden deception and the subtle disbelief continued until they became inclined towards them.” [Al-Ibānah (2/470)]

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

We seek refuge in Allah – we ask Allah ﷻ for safety and protection. This is a statement of truth.

Questioner:

Yes O’ Shaykh, does this narration imply a refutation of the one who mixes with the Hizbiyīn. Qutbuyīn, Surūriyīn under the excuses of advising them?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Yes, this is a proof against them.

Questioner:

Shaykh, is [it okay] for one of them to promise an individual from them,  so he sits and mixes with them, and when he is condemned for he makes the excuses that he is advising them?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Allah ﷻ is sufficient for us. This is considered hypocrisy.  If he says such a thing whilst he is in opposition to it [his speech], then this hypocrisy.

Questioner:

Shaykh, he makes excuses that they are being advised, so he advises them, however he doesn’t have the knowledge to do so, so is this upon him?

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

And he doesn’t have the ability to persuade them?

Questioner:

He doesn’t have knowledge, he is from the laymen of the Salafis.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Allāh ﷻ is sufficient for us. It is better for him to stay away.

Questioner:

Yes.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Is there anything else?

Questioner:

Yes O’ Shaykh. Ibn al-Qayyim said – in Igāthatul Lahfān, And one of his tricks and schemes – that is, the devil – is that he calls a slave to all sorts of sins and evil deeds using good character, cheerfulness and pleasure, such that a person from whose evil he cannot be safe except by frowning at him and turning away from him will meet him and the enemy (devil) will make it seeming for him to meet him with pleasure and cheerfulness until he fulfills his need.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

“and the enemy (shayṭān) will make it seeming for him to meet him with pleasure and cheerfulness” – meaning laughing.

Questioner:

The enemy (shayṭān) will make it seeming for him to meet him with pleasure and cheerfulness until he fulfills his need. Thus he enters upon the slave through the door of good character and cheerful countenance, and it is exactly because of this that the doctors of the heart have advised that people of innovation be shunned, and they should neither be given the greetings of salaam nor should one show them a cheerful face, and one should not meet them except with a frown while shunning them.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

A statement of truth. I say this is a statement of truth.

Questioner:

Abū Dāwūd as-Sijistānī said, ‘I said to Abū Abdillah Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal, “I see a man from the people of Sunnah with the people of innovation. Should I abandon speaking to him? He replied, “No, or inform him that they one whom you saw him with is a person of innovation. So if he abandons him, then speak to him, and if not, then align him with him.”

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

This speech is correct.

Questioner:

Yes.

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

Meaning, advise him first and inform him [about his evil companion]. If he doesn’t abandon him, then align him with him.

Questioner:

Al-Allamah Siyt ibn Ibrāhīm al-Quftī, known as ibn al-Ḥāj said,

“Allah makes this clear [in his statement];

وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ إِنَّكُمْ إِذًا مِّثْلُهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ  ۞ جَامِعُ الْمُنَافِقِينَ وَالْكَافِرِينَ فِي جَهَنَّمَ جَمِيعًا

And it has already been revealed to you in the Book (this Qur’an) that when you hear the Verses of Allah being denied and mocked at, then sit not with them, until they engage in a talk other than that; (but if you stayed with them) certainly in that case you would be like them. Surely, Allah will collect the hypocrites and disbelievers all together in Hell.” (Q 4:140)

Of that which he has ordered them in his statement in the Mekkian surah;

۞ وَإِذَا رَأَيْتَ الَّذِينَ يَخُوضُونَ فِي آيَاتِنَا فَأَعْرِضْ عَنْهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ وَإِمَّا يُنسِيَنَّكَ الشَّيْطَانُ فَلَا تَقْعُدْ بَعْدَ الذِّكْرَىٰ مَعَ الْقَوْمِ الظَّالِمِينَ

And when you (Muḥammad) see those who engage in a false conversation about Our Verses (of the Qur’an) by mocking at them, stay away from them till they turn to another topic. And if Satan causes you to forget, then after the remembrance sit not you in the company of those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.).” (Q 6:68)

Then it is clear in this Madian surah that sitting those who sit with [people] of this description are join to their ʿaqīdah. A group of the Imams had taken this position [madhab], and ruled with the use of this verse for sitting with the people of biddah is [considered] mixing and socialising, from them are Aḥmad ibn Hanbal,al-‘Awzā’ī,  ibn al-Mubarāk. Indeed they said about a man who sat with the people of innovation, ‘Caution him from sitting with them, if he doesn’t stop then join him with them’ meaning in ruling.’

Shaykh Aḥmad ibn Yaḥyá an-Najmī:

May Allah reward them. They are the elite of them – Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal, ʿAbdullah ibn al-Mubarāk and al-‘Awzā’ī. They are elite of the people.

Questioner:

Shaykh, does to joining [al-ilhaq] in the sittings mean to join them in the ruling of interacting only? Here it says ‘join him with him – meaning in the ruling’